Reimaging Xianity in the wake of Modernism's passing
Foundationalism
A few days ago, I posted a picture which I thought demonstrated the relationship between Modernism, Foundationalism, Fundamentalism, and Christianity. I’d like to clarify what I am talking about there, here. And critique it:
A rough approximation of how Modernism, Foundationalists, Fundamentalists, and Christianity relate to one another.
By Modernism, I mean the paradigm(s) of thought which owe their intellectual roots in the Enlightenment. Essential traits of Modernism are as follows:
- The elevation of reason as the ultimate standard.
- The elevation of science as the ultimate measure of truth.
- The elevation of the observable as the only source of evidence.
A lot more could be said here, but those are the features I want to highlight.
Foundationalism is a modernistic epistemological framework which attempts to build a solid foundation of undeniable and fully provable (often by the criteria listed above) truth propositions upon which all other forms of knowledge are built.[1]
Many, if not most, evangelical groups subscribe to a Foundationalist framework for building knowledge. They all assert the absolute truth of the Bible, but, because of their unnoticed acceptance of the modernist and foundationalist framework, they feel as though they must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the foundation that is the Bible. Once this is proved, then and only then can they proceed to demonstrate how the next piece of theology can be added upon the firm foundation that is the Bible. Once added, then they can logically and rationally add the next brick.
And so on.
And so on.
After a while, you can build a nice systematic theology which is rigid and impenetrable.
…
Unless one of the bricks falls out.
Now you have a hole in your wall. The bricks above now come a tumbling. Suddenly, most of your wall has fallen down and you are standing there looking a fool holding a bunch of spiritual propositions (or laws).
You become very invested in making sure not a single brick ever moves.
After all, you have constructed theology. Nay, you have constructed The Theology. The truth. It has set you free (to play within its walls, of course).
…
Unless one of your scientific premises about the Bible, its accuracy (as you conceive it) and historicity (as you wndant it to be) is proven wrong by science, history, or any other endeavor. Because your faith in the Bible, and religion as a whole, was predicated upon this foundation, a threat to the foundation is a threat to the whole system. Deny one part of the foundation, and you deny your whole system.
You see, the Bible is not prime, the scientific demonstration of the Bible’s authenticity is.
Because Foundationalists have capitulated to Modernism’s demands of knowledge and truth, we find ourselves arguing that the world is really a few thousand years old.
We find ourselves looking in vain, stretching the biblical witness, to force the mythical Leviathan into a naturalistic creature which has been observed.[2]
We need to move beyond Foundationalism, beyond Modernism.
We need to grasp the edges of the scientific/historical/literary/modernist/foundationalist tablecloth and yank it out from under the Bible.
When we do, we will find that the Spirit of the Living God does just fine on his own. Instead of needing justified, he justifies. Instead of being an objective (i.e. scientific) description of reality/history/science, we find that the Spirit speaking through the Bible is the most objective thing in the universe because it describes the world as God wills it to be.
The scary thing is that we have to leave Modernism behind, we need to leave Foundationalism behind. Any such task is fought with fear because this necessarily means that we have to be Postmodern.[3]
This is not as scary as it seems on the surface or in Christian chain-emails. In fact, though the road is dangerous, steep, and rocky, it allows us so much more.
Notes:- I have presented a very brief overview of Modernism and and Foundationalism. And, as such it is very incomplete for the sake of rhetoric. For a more complete discussion on Foundationalism and Modernism, I suggest the following works: Franke, John. The Character of Theology: An Introduction to Its Nature, Task, and Purpose. Baker Academic, 2005. Grenz, Stanley J. A Primer on Postmodernism. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1996. Grenz, Stanley James, and John R. Franke. Beyond Foundationalism. Westminster John Knox Press, 2001. [↩]
- And we drain the texts that mention the mythical Leviathan of their meaning in the process! [↩]
- … and Postmodernism did not give us relativism. Modernism did. [↩]
| Print article | This entry was posted by Henry Imler on December 8, 2009 at 9:54 am, and is filed under Bible, Foundationalism, Postmodernism. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback from your own site. |






about 8 months ago
Great post. Very good explanation of some of the key issues.I'd personally recommend that in your picture, that Christianity be represented by a dotted line. I'm not sure how much I like it being a box. :)Also, I think its worth pointing out that modernism hasn't been all bad (medicine, some technology, etc.). It has proven destructive in several key ways philosophically/theologically for Christianity, and in that regard should be re-appraised. But we shouldn't just outright reject it as an overall frame of reference. This is, I dare say, a very postmodern view of modernism. :)
about 8 months ago
Thanks for the input. I made up the picture in a few moments trying to roughly distinguish the things from one another for a classmate who was asking about it in our forums.And I don't want to knock modernism/ity completely, only Xianity's capitulation to it for justifying our faith/scriptures.I also should have noted that those brinks foundationalists build often get confused with the foundation itself because of the solid connection between them. So we confuse our constructions for the text (i.e. Grundem's Systematic Theology).
about 8 months ago
I can deff picture the dotted line, or perhaps a solid shape defusing.
about 8 months ago
This sounds more like a polemic against inerrancy and the usual postmodern attempt to do away with knowable and authoritative truth than anything else. I have read this thing like three or four times and I'm just not buying into it.You need to be more clear on what you feel the foundation is that you are attacking because I'm still not certain what that is and what I'm supposed to do about it. As it stands right now, if I showed this to most students here at SBTS they will be confused by the lack of substance and simply dismiss this.There are so many questions like what does theopneustos (2 Timothy 3:16-17) mean then in the postmodern understanding you operate under? Same goes for 2 Peter 1:20-21, what does Peter mean there?Just trying to give my honest reaction to this post having mulled it around for about an hour or so.
about 8 months ago
Well put Henry…and good points Matt.
about 8 months ago
"sounds more like a polemic against inerrancy and the usual postmodern attempt to do away with knowable and authoritative truth than anything else"What I am really attacking is Christian's need to scientifically justify the Bible (not attacking the contents of the Bible – please note that).
about 8 months ago
I'm not saying you are dismissing 2 Tim 3:16-17 or 2 Peter 1:20-21. I'm saying that it sounds like a postmodern polemic against inerrancy–a doctrine that really took shape at the beginning of the 20th century–and removal of authoritative truth claims. It's the reaction I get having read this thing over and over.What do you mean by "I am…attacking [the] Christian's need to scientifically justify the Bible"? This is part of what I mean by the post not being clear and and being confusing. Are you talking from a pov of "evolution vs creation" or text critical debates with B. Ehrman? I need more clarity from a post that was supposed to clarify.And my questions on 2 Tim 3:16-17 and 2 Peter 1:20-21 was asking about how you now read those texts if you think evangelicals aren't reading them right and are using them incorrectly.You might answer these things later. I'm just giving my reaction from the pov as one who probably stands with in the circle you are critiquing–but because I'm not clear on what you mean I don't know if I even am.
about 8 months ago
Thanks for the clarifying comment, Hank. I now understand better what you were asking about at first.I feel as though Foundationalist Christians (FC's) (which includes a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalists as well as other christian groups.) have bought into the modernist myth that the only knowledge that is real is scientific knowledge.Religious claims (such as revelation) are devalued in Foundationalism because you can't prove them scientifically. So, FC's gave in, conceded the point.Then FC's went about justifying revelation on the basis of scientific proof.
about 8 months ago
I think that reading texts with this in mind opens up and empowers 2Tim 3 and 2 Peter 1 moreso than a Foundationalist reading.And you are dead wrong on Postmodernism. Modernism was the one that devalued all truth claims save for scientific ones, rendering everything that was not science as mere opinion. And that started well before the 20th century.Post-Structualists such as Derrida, Lyotard, and Foucault issue a different set of challenges to the Church, but they can be met just as the Enlightenment-Modernist-Foundationalist challenges can be met.But their challenge is not necessarily "there are no truth claims." Furthermore, Pomo is fundamentally thinking after modernism, it is too wide to collapse into what we have collapsed it into (relativism, no metanarratives, denial of truth claims).
about 8 months ago
I'm liking this. Still processing it, but I'm liking it.As far as Timothy goes, the best I can come up with for "God-breathed" is that God is in it somehow. Peter: Authenticity issues aside, part of the point he's making is that the prophetic word is rooted in community. The rejoinder to this is 2:1-3, but I don't think anyone who's asking genuine questions of God is going to fall under that framework. Any theory that tries to explain a concept that the Bible doesn't explain is always going to fall short. "Inspiration" is a very slippery term, and I think we might just need to leave it as a self-defined term. What would a little mystery hurt? In addition, since "inerrancy and infallibility" are fairly new inventions (as you pointed out), I wonder why we take it upon ourselves to make claims for the Bible that it doesn't make for itself. I think what we really mean is "our own inerrant and infallible interpretations."
about 8 months ago
Darryl. True. They way I am looking at it is that a) the Spirit had a role in either crafting or selecting texts, and b) that the Spirit breathes through (not saying this is what the verse is saying and that alone, but more how I view it large scale) the Bible. Or, the Bible is the Spirit's instrument in teaching the Church. The Bible is not an end to itself.
about 8 months ago
Couple of thoughts:Modernity is not totally evil. (I think you would agree with me on this). In some circles and conversations, people try to make what modernity brought about and shaped as stupid and evil. I think there are many qualities that GREATLY beneficial to Christianity. The science/logic/reason is not the end all to everything but it is needed. Modernity didn't bring 100% proofs of the bible, but it did bring something that complements and adds to our faith. (sarcastic note–without Christian Modernity–you would not be in a college to critic Modernity!)Aren't you brick-building too? Isn't this article a brick for Henry!!! (a good brick but none the less a brick)"The Spirit of the Living God does good on it's own." I think one issue that bothers me with this statement is that God always uses people for his work! I think I know what you are saying, "We try to hard to have all the right answers," but don't discredit our role in ministering to others!
about 8 months ago
One more thought… My professors in school–taught exactly how you describe Modernity and its thinking. So good job with that!
about 8 months ago
I worry about your formulation of foundationalism and the conclusions you draw from it. You define foundationalism as such:"Foundationalism is a modernistic epistemological framework which attempts to build a solid foundation of undeniable and fully provable (often by the criteria listed above) truth propositions upon which all other forms of knowledge are built."Defining foundationalism this way is too simple and naive. Foundationalism is a complex and multifaceted epistemological theory that can take many forms and be explicated in different ways. Here are some points of contention:1. Foundationalism is not a modernistic theory per se. Although many modern philosophers held to some form of foundationalism, the philosophical import given to foundationalism has its origins in Aristotle (cf. Posterior Analytics, Bk. l, chap. 2 & 3), and perhaps even Plato (cf. the Third Man argument from the Parmenides, and the discussion of the nature of virtue in the Meno). Moreover, epistemic foundationalism can also be found the works of such medieval greats as Augustine and Aquinas. Finally, there are many contemporary proponents of foundationalism who in no way can be characterized as followers of the early moderns with respect to their philosophical endeavors (e.g. Alvin Plantinga, Alvin Goldman, Michael Bergmann).Your Venn diagram entails the claim “All foundationlists are modernists.” But this is false given the counterexamples from above. To provide a polemic against foundationalism is really not to argue against a specifically modern theory of which we must disabuse ourselves, but it is really to argue against a theory held by some of the giants of Western philosophy. 2. You claim that all fundamentalists are foundationalists, but foundationalists with respect to what? In order to critique foundationalism, you must be clear what sort of foundationalism you are critiquing, for some are foundationalists with respect to justification, some with respect to warrant, and others with respect to knowledge. Generally, the early moderns are characterized as foundationalists with respect to justification, which I assume is what you are critiquing. Yet you also say that foundationalists build a solid foundation upon which all other forms of knowledge are built (emphasis on “knowledge”). You also later claim, “Many, if not most, evangelical groups subscribe to a Foundationalist framework for building knowledge.” So it is unclear if you are concerned with foundationalism with respect to justification or with respect to knowledge/warrant.3. Another claim that requires clarification: you say that foundationalism “attempts to build a solid foundation of undeniable and fully provable (often by the criteria listed above) truth propositions…”. However, not all forms of foundationalism require that knowledge/justification rest upon truth claims that are undeniable or fully provable. The specific form of foundationalism you are concerned with is classical (or Cartesian) foundationalism, which is a sub-genre of foundationalism simpliciter. Foundationalism in general (F) is defined as: there are justified/warranted beliefs that justified/warranted not in virtue of being inferred or based on other beliefs. A simpler way of defining F is the claim “there are properly basic beliefs” (i.e. beliefs that are non-inferentially justified/warranted). However, you seem to be only concerned with classical foundationalism, not foundationalism in general. Classical foundationalism (CF) is defined as: there are properly basic beliefs and a belief P is properly basic if and only if P is self-evident or indubitable. Ergo, Descartes claims that the only beliefs that are properly basic are beliefs like “I am having the appearance of red” “I am in pain” “I think”, for all such beliefs are true in virtue of being believed.This is a serious problem though for how you sketch foundationalism. Your claims are really an attack on CF, but disguised as an attack on F. Many, if not all, of the contemporary philosophers who hold to F have come to reject CF. Consider, as an alternative to classical foundationalism, Reidian foundationalism (namesake of Thomas Reid), which allows for such beliefs as perceptual beliefs, memory beliefs, beliefs in God, and even beliefs concerning the inerrancy of Scripture to be properly basic beliefs. Thus, for the fundamentalist Christians who holds to Reidian foundationalism (e.g. many Reformed Christians are Reidian foundationalists), your critique of foundationalism is seen as a gross non sequitur and irrelevant to their views. 4. Given this consideration of Reidian foundationalism, consider your claim: “[Evangelical foundationalists] assert the absolute truth of the Bible, but, because of their unnoticed acceptance of the modernist and foundationalist framework, they feel as though they must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the foundation that is the Bible.” But this claim is false for the adherents to more nuanced forms of foundationalism. In fact, the need to prove the Bible (whatever that means) is no longer necessary for the some foundationalists, since the inerrancy and truth of Scripture is taken as a properly basic claim that requires no substantiation. One can reasonably and justifiably accept the inerrancy of Scripture in the absence of defeaters, despite the fact one may not be able to provide evidence or a proof of that claim. 5. What follows from this then is that systematic theologies no longer must rest upon deductively proven, indubitable truth claims. Rather systematic theologies are not as rigid as you claim, for they can easily be constructed given such common sense beliefs as metaphysical realism, the perspicuity of Scripture, and the faculty of the Holy Ghost who aids and guides us through our discovery of God via his Word. Of course there is a human element to any interpretation of Scripture and our constructions of systematic theologies, but why is that a problem? There is a human element to all of our acquisitions to knowledge, but that doesn’t mean we must be skeptics. The point is that some forms of foundationalism can account for such non-rigid theologies that are continuously being refined and discussed as we learn more about God and His Word (cf. the Reformed creed of semper reformanda).6. In sum, you conclude: “We need to move beyond Foundationalism, beyond Modernism,” and “The scary thing is that we have to leave modernism behind. Any such task is fought with fear because this necessarily means that we have to be postmodern.” First, I think my points have demonstrated that you have given us no reason to leave foundationalism simpliciter behind, but at best you have only shown the demerits of classical foundationalism. I am interested to see an argument against F, not CF. Second, you state that necessarily, if one rejects modernism, then one accepts post-modernism. However, I find that this claim is dubious, as if we fall under either a modernist and postmodernist paradigm. I think that this formulation of the debate is unfair, for there many examples of historic and contemporary Christian philosophers/theologians who are neither modernists nor postmodernists. Even a cursory knowledge of such men as Herman Bavinck, Thomas Reid, and Pietro Vermigli will show this to be the case. But this would require us to move beyond the modernist/postmodernist dichotomy; hopefully though, this should not be too "scary."
about 8 months ago
Travis, you of all people should know the difference between popular descriptions and academic technical ones. I am speaking to a non-technical audience. Besides, your counterexamples only talk to CF, not F, so I am not sure what you were doing there.In reality, I used Foundationalism to describe Hard Foundationalism, which you probably already knew, given they way I talked about it. And it does trace back to Descartes.Some Reformed Epistemological, such as Plantinga (as you mention) and Wolterstorff critique Hard Foundationalism. But they really are moving in post-modern directions in that they acknowledge the inevitability of our being situated in a particular community and admit the loss of certitude involved in such a acknowledgment. And I do define post-modernism as that which rejects major features of modernism. It is certainly too early to set out rigid criteria. I use a simplistic definition, but one that is helpful. And certainly postmodernism is not to be conflated with French poststructualists or remnants of modernism's cultural relativity.I am referring to hard foundationalist systematic theologies such as Wayne Grundem's, which conflate the scientific inductions from the source material with the source material.
about 8 months ago
Oh, and I should have mentioned that most Christian groups – Liberal, Conservative, Fundamentalist, and Evangelical have historically been hard foundationalists.
about 8 months ago
Henry, I have wrestled with the question for a long long time. I would enjoy your response to this question. It seems like, especially in your article, that you want to move away from modernity and anything related. I bump into people and I have conversations all the time about this issue. If Post-modernity is the answer then we should succumb to it. (many people state that we are now beyond post-modernity…a post-post-modern time). Anyways, look at this and tell me if it helps/gives/builds your faith at all…Julius Caesar's Gallic Wars is a book that nobody questions the reliability/trustworthiness of the book. We have only 10 Manuscripts of the book. Homer's Iliad (which is the most of any book outside of the bible) we have 643 copies. Nobody questions the authenticity of Homer's writing. But we have over 25,000 NT early Manuscripts. When compared to modern day bibles…they match up. In my mind, this builds my faith and gives me more confidence in knowing what I believe is true. Not that this "evidence" proves Christianity to be true but, I think, it strengths the logical case. I don't see why I need to through this out the window? How is this not beneficial? This one "Brick" isn't the foundational piece nor should it be but can't it be useful? Useful for ministering to other Christians? Useful for ministering to non-xians?
about 8 months ago
I especially enjoy the Rob Bell influence. Lots of short paragraphs and pics :)
about 8 months ago
JR – readability
about 8 months ago
U don't have to justify ur artsy side to me buddy ;) I totally dig it!
about 8 months ago
And the current liberal and conservative movements, especially the evangelical and fundamentalist movements date to the last 100 years or so, I thought their history was known by others.
about 8 months ago
Hank, Travis, Casey – I'd love to continue this over at MT.
about 6 months ago
Here's a question for you then. How would you defend the Scripture and Yahweh against the attack of an agnostic (an atheist without balls) like Barth Ehrman? His goal is to move beyond theism and faith in a god of any kind. He won't go after most other religions because of political reasons; it is politically correct to bash Christianity in America but not Islam, for example. Or how does one defend our faith against a person who says biblical text A contradicts biblical text B, therefore God does not exist at all?
What I have been hoping you will do is to do more than call for an end to foundationalism but really explore this topic, explaining it better and showing what needs to go in its place and how that works itself out for Christians. The above questions are apologetic in nature, but are examples of things that have been on my mind since you've made this a major sticking point in your blogging.
And finally, you are not a foundationalist. Yet you operate on the foundation of “All truth is God's truth.” How is that any different? Something else I've been wanting to ask since the Rob Bell post, but felt it more appropriate here on the post for foundationalism.
about 6 months ago
Hank,
Great questions! I was hoping you or someone would eventually ask them. Most of them are in posts that I have not taken the time to write out. This won't replace the content of those posts, but perhaps serve as a preview.
First, in rejecting Modernism, we don't throw out everything. We reject certain central tenants of Modernism, but don't kill the patient. For instance, I reject the Foundationalist method of constructing knowledge. We've seen it go awry in the scholaticism of the late Medieval Church and in the recent scholasticism of Evangelicalism (e.g. inerrancy is the wrong answer to the wrong question).
However, this does not mean that we reject having system of knowledge, we just replace it. So, while I reject “truth as the correspondence of individual assertions with the world, each of which is thought to be true per se and unalterably”[1] It does not mean I reject truth. I do realize that what we think is truth is actually a constructed, power-laden, and situated assertion. So we search for an alternate epistemology.
What I go for instead of the grand, objective correspondence and foundationalist epistemology is erecting a “web of belief” where all propositions stand, not on a unshakable foundation, but in their relation to the whole. Kind of like a game of Don't Break the Ice. There are problems with this method, but there are serious problems with all methods we have come up with so far.
We can't pierce the veil, all conversations are language games, revelation is unprovable, all assertions are historically conditioned and situated. Those individual “objective” assertions from above are now parts in a mosaic, not toothpicks and marshmellows.
So, as a belief mosaic, the idea that all truth is God's truth is a central and large piece in the mosaic. It is supported by my whole view of the world and my whole view of the world is supported and makes sense in light of it. They mutually support each other, though one is more important than the other.
Ehrman and “Tripping Atheists” are right, in a sense. They play by our rules and point out that there are problems. By the strictest inerrant test, the Bible is false, because if not each verse absolutely historically true and in perfect alignment with each other true proposition (verse) then the whole thing falls apart. And Foundationalists/Foundamentalists, in turn, have to completely answer each and every objection or their entire faith is threatened.
This is a major sticking point in my blogging and I certainly am biting at the chomps to articulate it here. There are so many things that I want to talk about. The liberal-conservative divide, the postliberal and postconservative branches of evangelicalism, etc. I just need to take the time to do so.
Hank, I know you are swamped with classes and work, but I can't recommend enough Beyond Foundationalism and The Character of Theology. Both books are either written or cowritten by Reformed theologians/philosophers. I know, I was surprised too. lol. I've read several really good reformed works this semester, though they don't have that New Calvinist stench on them.
[1] Beyond Foundationalism, p. 38.
about 6 months ago
First, given what atheists argue, like Ehrman, there is no need to abandon inerrancy. Either they fail to directly engage with the text itself (Hitchens' main argument is to appeal to emotion while assuming a morality that can only operate in the Christian theistic worldview), they fail to read texts in the contexts in which they appear (atheist Dan Barker has a list of texts that are contradictory until read in their own contexts), their own views of the text are contradictory (Ehrman), or they don't understand inerrancy itself (again, Ehrman–in fact his objections, in say text criticism, are objections that have been responded to for decades).
So I'm failing to see why there needs to to be a rejection of inerrancy when the attacks fail to stick. I ask the question why must I abandon it, and no satisfactory answer is given because the reply to the objection actually does work. I'm not the type of person who doesn't listen to the opposition, otherwise I wouldn't be very nice to N. T. Wright. But they have to put together an argument that overwhelms my response. Objections to inerrancy just fail to do so, especially since they rest upon proving text A contradicts text B.
What was the wrong question and should be the right question? What is the right answer to that wrong question as well as what is the right answer to the right question? That parenthetical statement deserves much more attention than it got.
Here's the thing. When I engage in apologetics with non-believers, I don't try to articulate, say, the cosmological argument until I have first understood and engaged the worldview from which the non-believer operates out of; it's called presuppositional apologetics (you may or may not have heard of it). I agree that when a gentleman like William Lane Craig, for example, tries to offer up evidence of the presence of the supernatural, then monotheism, then Christian theism (all the same evidence too by the way to make so many points), the way in which the non-believer views that evidence hasn't been changed. So a committed naturalist will still view the evidence through the lens of naturalism and completely miss Craig's point. Once I've challenged their worldview with my Christian worldview, then I can present evidence that the Christian God exists, not just a god. The worldview cannot be parceled out so that the morality of the worldview is separated from the God who commands the morality. So I can kind of see the whole web analogy you are trying to make.
For the example of “all truth is God's truth,” you haven't shown how it isn't a foundation. It still looks like much of your worldview is foundationally damaged if that maxim is untrue. From what I've gathered you are building on that maxim your epistemological system. How does the rest of that system support the validity of the maxim? That's not clear. I'm not seeing how your position is actually different from the position you're critiquing.
about 6 months ago
Again, this is going to be another short reply that is admittedly inadequate to what you raise, but I wanna offer it quickly.
I had Ehrman in mind in my comment. I brush off Hitchens and his ilk because they are attacking a strawman found no where. Ehrman, on the other hand, offers actual historical-critical and textual criticisms and criticisms that can only arise in an inerrant view of scripture. Inerranists have to deal with his specific claims if they want to stay in business.
I think that the spirit of Chicago-style inerrany is rooted in good and godly intentions. However, historically, it was a created doctrine in response to modernist criticisms of the Bible. In that way, I really think that Modernism asks the wrong questions of Biblical texts (i.e. the only true narratives are the ones that are Rein Geschichteetc…) and that we have co-opted those questions in the quest to prove the Scriptures as the word of God. So, I think that we have asked, in the inerrancy debate, the wrong questions of the Bible.
Back to my bit about “all truth,” I think that we are approaching this through two different paradigms. (I might be waaaaaay off, though.) Perhaps, as a foundationalist, you can't help but to order things in such a way. I think the idea of a belief mosaic works very well and describes how we actually do business.
It is my intention to give form and shape to how this differs from what I am attacking. It all clicks up here (pointing to my brain), but I have yet to articulate it all yet. If you really want to know, pick up Beyond Foundationalism at the school library (I'd be willing to let you borrow my copy) and read the first few chapters (though I recognize that just as I don't have the time to sit and articulate everything, you don't have the time to read on this issue that is not nearly as important to you as it is to me.)
Oh, and there are plenty of people who don't think that Craig is a gentleman in his debates. That is an open question, but I do wonder why that modifier was placed there.
about 6 months ago
Well, the thing with Ehrman is that his attacks have been around for at least a century (if memory serves correctly) so I (personally) brush him off, kinda, as well.
I hear you on “it clicks in my head but putting it on paper and it clicking in someone else's.” Too often that happens. Like you said, conversation is indeed a language game.
Finally, I was just trying to be respectful of Craig. Again, I don't buy into evidential apologetics, nor do I buy into his molinism (Which seems more and more like that episode Mirror, Mirror, from Star Trek TOS and that Star Trek TNG episode where there were all of those different Enterprises that Worf had to find the correct one).
I personally think the church really needs to get back to how Calvin thought that the greatest proof of the Scripture being God's word, dabar YHWH ;), is the Holy Spirit authenticating it in the lives of the people of God. Digging into history should not be what convinces a person that the writers of the Bible were inspired by God, but the moving of the Spirit through the hearing of the Word. The historical information can increase one's trust in the Bible as God's word, that God would not lie to them, but should never make or break that trust. And not just in Genesis but in 2 Kings as well.
about 5 months ago
Hank,
Was there anything of value in the specifics of what I am saying in this post? The fact that the students at SBTS would dismiss it says more about the nature of their education and lack of an ability to listen than anything else. I don't pretend to have written an all-encompassing manifesto, but the beginnings of looking at things outside of the Modernist/Foundationalist box.
It is therefore supposed to generate those questions within you, that is its very point.
about 5 months ago
Hank, I am talking about our need to make sure the Bible is 100% perfect according to the demands set by Modernism. It has to 100% scientifically true, it has to be 100% historically true… etc. That is what I am talking about.
Anyone who has listened to or read popular apologetics knows that we have this deep-seated insecurity and need to demonstrate the accuracy of the Bible. What we are really saying is that you can trust it, not because it is from God, but because we can prove it. And this proving is done under the rules of a Modernistic Science.
about 5 months ago
No I disagree about the SBTS students and their education. If you aren't going give them anything to chew on, what are they supposed to do? There is very little to your musings on foundationalism other than it's wrong. There's no why it's wrong, you don't expound and dive into what you are saying. And the fact that you seem to be on a crusade (not necessarily a bad thing, but you like to bring it up a lot) for this cause generates a feeling of annoyance because I'm reading about nothing, in my eyes. The whole foundationalism isn't being put in the circle of relevance to daily life. Only that I should abandon it in favor of…well, you have said what goes in its place. I would like more to know if it's worth my time trying to get a hold of these books you keep recommending, but I'm not getting that. The students here would say the same thing. You don't provide depth to your issue and so it's hard to take it seriously in the way you would have it taken.